Macken Debate team and Lasallian principles: Interview with a first year student

After her first year at St Mary’s College and my first year as Lead Coach, I wanted to interview Kathy Barajas about her view of the connections between the Macken Debate and Speech team and Lasallian principles. (This interview was edited for clarity and length.)

Andrea Brown: I’m so glad you're here and that we're doing this interview! My first question is what drew you to the team?

Kathy Barajas: My sophomore year in high school I joined the speech team. It was a really good experience for me; I was able to break out of my shell. I wanted to continue at St Mary's. When I found out about the debate team, I decided to stick to it.

AB: Awesome! So what made you stick around?

Kathy: At first, I wasn't sure. But part of what reassured, or reaffirm me wanting to stay, was the community, you, and the team. I always felt super supported with you guys, even when I wasn’t winning my matches. I left each round having gained something new, and that's something that you helped me see. Because there were moments where I got frustrated but you'd always say “Okay, but what did you learn from it?”. And that's something that I've been able to put into other parts of my life. It's definitely changed my perspective for the better, so a big thank you for that.

AB: That’s great! I want you to win, but I care more that you learn and to hear you say that that approach was helpful means a lot. Moving more specifically to Lasallian values, what connections do you see between debate and social justice?

Kathy: There's a lot to debate that is very similar to social justice. My understanding of social justice comes from the Catholic teaching about being a voice for the voiceless and underrepresented. A large part of debate is exactly this. When we talked about the settler colonization affirmative, in the beginning, it was a little hard to understand. But once Bella [Isabel Jeronimo, 2020 alumni of the Macken Debate team] went through it and explained to me how important it was for me to properly represent this affirmative because it's representing indigenous communities, I understood that's essentially what debate is. You're trying to argue for the “most just” approach in hard and difficult situations, the kind of situations that would affect everyone. Your job is to represent the best interest of all people, especially of those who aren't there and don’t have the platform to voice their opinions. I know it's debate and it's theoretical, but it means more. We become better people when we’re able to step outside ourselves and represent others, a greater cause. As debaters, we are called to be the voice of the voiceless and educate ourselves on the issues that affect people in real life. Debate helps open our eyes to the struggles of marginalized communities. In understanding their struggle, we are better able to show empathy, solidarity and take action, not just in the world of debate but in our larger real world.

AB: I remember when you, Bella and I hung out for three hours while Bella was walking you through this affirmative that she wrote with other team alumni. She would say something, and you’d say “Oh, is this like this other thing?” You made those connections and your whole face would light up. It was awesome. Can you tell me about a time when you or somebody else took steps to uphold the dignity of the people involved?

Kathy: I have multiple memories of when people would uphold me, or we’d uphold each other. The team was definitely upholding my human dignity because you guys weren't sending me into tournaments to just go for it, you were all very considerate of my feelings. Everyone took time with me and was super patient with me through the learning process. For example, there was that night with Bella and you and the settler colonization affirmative. And another time was during my first parliamentary debate tournament. There were technical difficulties that didn't allow me to debate to the best of my ability. My partner, who was from a different school, was able to help me out and guide me through it. It felt like a partnership and I didn't feel alone. I knew I could reach out to him if I needed to and he was supporting me and my needs as a newer, more anxious debater. He stepped in and called a speed criticism [an argument for keeping debate accessible for all] because the opposing team was going so fast I couldn't keep up.

There were times I couldn’t make practice or when other people didn’t feel comfortable going to a debate tournament immediately; the team and you were all super understanding. You’d say, “Take some time until you feel comfortable”. Before entering the tournaments, you’d always ask us “Is this something you want to do?” then we’d say yes or no, then we'd go from there. I never felt forced to do anything I didn’t feel comfortable doing and everything was at my own pace which I really appreciate. I always felt like the team did its best at upholding one another's dignity and mental/emotional needs.

AB: What about a time you did that for someone else?

Kathy: In one of our debate tournaments there was a newer member to the debate community. While we were debating. I felt the way in which I ordered my speech made her fumble. I ended up winning, but I felt bad. I wanted to make sure that she was doing okay. You suggested that I emailed her, and I did. I asked her how she was doing and apologized if my debating had messed her up. She said that she didn't notice it and thought it was a fair match where we both did our best. Later in the tournament, I was able to help her because she asked me for some information about her opponent for her next round. I sent her the cards [researched arguments]. I hope that, in some way that helped her prepare and feel better about her next round. I'm happy that she kept doing debate. It was a good experience.

AB: So awesome! What have you learned through debate that's different than what you could learn in a classroom?

Kathy: The things that I've learned in debate, I’ve been able to apply to a classroom setting, especially in seminar. Debate helped me feel more confident about backing up my opinions and my statements, believe in myself, and have confidence in what I believe. Before, whenever I would try to participate in class, even if I had the right answer, I'd second guess myself. Then someone else would go and say the thing I was thinking. Debate taught me that it's okay to be wrong. The most important part is that you learn and grow from the experience. I’m more comfortable participating and more confident about what I know. My words have value. Before, in class, I was used to sitting back, absorbing, not always feeling super engaged. But in debate, it's different because I have to put myself out there. I’ve noticed that when I put myself out there in class, I get so much more out as long as I go into it with an open mind.

AB: Love all this! I know you're religious so for you, what is the relationship between your faith and what we do in debate?

Kathy: It's about the relationship that you have within the room and with each other, whether is to your partner, to your opponent, or to the judge. For me, a big part of my faith is about not just my relationship to God but also my relationship to others and the way that I treat others. I believe that everyone is made with human dignity, everyone is made in the image of God and because of that we all deserve to be treated with love, care, respect, and dignity. Going into a debate round, I’ve noticed that everyone does their part to make sure that it feels like a safe, respected, and friendly environment.

AB: Love. This is so thoughtful. How does debate try to build an inclusive community?

Kathy: Debate as a whole is super inclusive of everyone. Creating categories like novice, JV, and varsity, so that everyone has the opportunity of a fair debate match. Also, the intercollegiate debate community shares resources with each other so teams that don't have as many funds or who can’t afford groups of researchers are able to gain access to shared research files. The debate community is focused on making sure that everyone can engage in debate. Teams want to win, but if that were the only thing that they cared about they’d just keep all that valuable information to themselves. Judges give you feedback focused on improving. They're inclusive of everyone's needs and help you grow. For St Mary's, I know that the team is super welcoming and inclusive. 

AB: What is one of your favorite memories from the past year from the Macken debate team?

Kathy: I’ve really cherished the opportunities we’ve had to come together as a team, like our Among Us [online game] hang out. Being with the team has always been a lot of fun. Everyone was super friendly to me, and they all were open to me. When I first started in the team, I remember during a practice, Kathryn Magee and Barbra Altawil were giving me feedback. I really admire them so everything that they told me, I was “Oh, I have to take note of that, I have to do this better”. I want to, hopefully one day, be as great as they are. I appreciate who they are and the whole team. Any moment that I’m able to be with the team is a happy moment for me.

AB: Awesome! So thinking about the future and, especially, a future where hopefully we get back on campus What would you to see for the future of the Macken debate team?

Kathy: This is a bit harder because we've been online, so I only know the team through its online form, but I hope that it is as great of an experience as what you guys describe it to be in person. I hope that we're able to come together more often as a team, create more memories, spend more time together working on debate, uplifting and upholding one another. As long as we do those kinds of things, the team is headed in a good direction. Maybe one day we can hold a tournament on campus. I want other people to attend so that we can extend our home to others.

AB: Super cool. Is there anything else, that you would like to share?

Kathy: As I mentioned before, debate has helped me become more confident. Debate has given me my voice. I’m a very shy person and sometimes it's hard for me to open up, to believe that what I say matters. I’m working on it, but debate has helped me with that because it's shown me that what I say does matter, and what I have to say, what we all have to say, has an impact. In rounds, I know that I’m being heard and what I'm saying has weight. Within each round, I come out of it, knowing that I'm growing and I'm getting better at believing in me.

AB: This is so awesome. Thank you for doing this interview and I’m looking forward to having you on the team next year!